| Do you feel the priest was telling the truth? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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| Total Votes: 2 |
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| rudyhiebert Member Joined Oct 2, 2003 481 posts Location: Abbotsford BC |
 Movie, "Doubt" |
Posted Jul 4, 2009; 8:44 am |
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| Didn't doze off during this one, which says a lot for a movie now days. Had to increase the volume and do a "rewind" a few times because parts where a bit too quick and too quiet. It contained elements of current and contemporary ethical situations that apply to the present day. Rated PG. |
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| westcoast frame of mind Moderator |
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Posted Jul 6, 2009; 6:57 pm |
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I'd love to discuss this movie - but fear doing so will give away the plot line 
I'm not entirely sure of what exactly you are referring to ... in your question.
However, I think the priest was an peodophile.
What do people think about Streep's line - ‘In pursuit of wrong doing one steps away from God. Of course there is a price.’ Was she ok in what she did? |
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| rudyhiebert Member Joined Oct 2, 2003 481 posts Location: Abbotsford BC |
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Posted Jul 10, 2009; 9:02 am |
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| westcoast frame of mind wrote: | I'd love to discuss this movie - but fear doing so will give away the plot line
I'm not entirely sure of what exactly you are referring to ... in your question.
.....I think the priest was an pedophile.... |
You're entitled to your opinion but generally my question related to his response to his whether or not he was being honest about what was his motive and role in showing support and compassion to the singled out colored boy. I do not have evidence to have the same opinion about whether or not the priest was a pedophile. I also have the opinion that this movie shows, in an extreme example, what is all too common in our MB circles. I'm not saying we have "priests" that are pedophiles but we do stab pillows consequently from which the feathers are blown by the wind. |
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| westcoast frame of mind Moderator |
| WARNING: plot-line disclosure :) |
Posted Jul 10, 2009; 11:49 am |
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| rudyhiebert wrote: | | You're entitled to your opinion but generally my question related to his response to his whether or not he was being honest about what was his motive and role in showing support and compassion to the singled out colored boy. I do not have evidence to have the same opinion about whether or not the priest was a pedophile. I also have the opinion that this movie shows, in an extreme example, what is all too common in our MB circles. I'm not saying we have "priests" that are pedophiles but we do stab pillows consequently from which the feathers are blown by the wind. |
Yes, the Priest supported and showed compassion to the black child - when viewing the film I saw this as 'grooming' behaviour. I'd need to rent the movie again - and perhaps as you did stop/rewind in places. However, the movie depicted (or hinted at) the priest's previous victim who was jealous of the attention the priest was now putting on his new prospective victim. The priest saw the black child alone - the boy returned to the group upset - the priest returned a piece of clothing to the boy's locker - hoping noone will see him. For me the proof that the priest was a pedophile was him leaving the school when the nun told him she had telephoned his old parish or school. Had he stayed hopefully the black boy and the other victim would have been interviewed.
In the sentences I've underlined from your post, I'm thinking you may be referring to unfounded allegations being brought against leadership (pastors) which disrupt the pastor's life and the church? What do you mean by 'all too common'. What kind of allegations are you hinting at? |
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| rudyhiebert Member Joined Oct 2, 2003 481 posts Location: Abbotsford BC |
| Re: WARNING: plot-line disclosure :) |
Posted Jul 10, 2009; 1:15 pm |
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[quote="westcoast frame of mind"] | rudyhiebert wrote: | ....
In the sentences I've underlined from your post, I'm thinking you may be referring to unfounded allegations being brought against leadership (pastors) which disrupt the pastor's life and the church? What do you mean by 'all too common'. What kind of allegations are you hinting at? |
Wishing to clarify my opinion, I am not hinting or making or directing allegations toward leadership. I am also not referring to any person or circumstances, specifically or generally. What I am referring to is our errors made in prejudging and spreading rumors, unfounded or not, that destroy people in the process. |
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| westcoast frame of mind Moderator |
| Re: WARNING: plot-line disclosure :) |
Posted Jul 10, 2009; 1:33 pm |
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I get what you are saying and agree.
In my view, the movie doesn't quite fit the category you are mentioning. The two nuns do not start a gossip, rumour or political campaign against the priest.
One person in care of minors (the niave young nun) brought forward valid concerns (the priest behaviour's with a minor) to the older 'streetwise' nun. Both nuns have the 'duty of care' to protect minors. The older nun working within the constraints of her system does what she feels she must do to protect the innoncent (the minor). |
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| westcoast frame of mind Moderator |
| WARNING: really big plot-line disclosure :) |
Posted Jul 10, 2009; 7:33 pm |
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Rudy,
I just remembered more of the plot. Remember the little boy's mom told the older nun he was gay and didn't resist the priest? She was willing to leave him in the school, leave him being sexually victimized just so he could be in a good school.
The boy was a minor, the priest was in a position of authority. Regardless of wether or not the little boy 'resisted' in the Cdn system the priest would be charged with sexual assault or invitation to sexual touching (depending on the offence) and charged for his other victims also. It is sometimes the case that a victim may experience a measure of sexual stimulation when they are victimized. This has no bearing at all, with regard to the criminal and moral responsibility of the adult - especially, if the adult is in a position of authority. |
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| thursday Member Joined May 6, 2009 94 posts |
| doubt and spiritual authority |
Posted Jul 11, 2009; 8:41 am |
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Hey West Coast and Rudy,
I am curious how you would integrate this discussion with the one occurring about servant leadership/authority. In that thread someone suggested that obeying God's appointed leader=obeying God. This type of equation clearly lends itself to ones where the priest/pastor has much power. I believe regardless of whether or not the priest did molest the boy, this movie should come as a warning re: this type of leadership structure. Clearly we all believe that leaders are to subject themselves to the will of God. However when a leader who is part of a church who affirms the equation given above takes part in abusive or makes decisions clearly opposed to the KoG how is this to be dealt with in a safe way? IMO this is what RR was trying to get at when speaking about power. IMO its not about everyone being equals but rather about each person's "voice" being able to be heard and mattering. Power imbalance occurs when the weak's voice cannot be heard because the leader's overshadows them |
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| westcoast frame of mind Moderator |
| Thursday |
Posted Jul 11, 2009; 11:36 pm |
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The autocratic system didn't have a way for the older nun to bring her concerns forward. Again, I'd have to review the movie again to refresh my memory (and this discussion may well prompt me to do so). I remember at one point the older nun tried to do something through the system - but the priest played 'his authority card' and stopped her. So without any other way to protect the young black boy she took matters into her own hands.
One message in all this would be that any organizational system must have 'check/balances' or ways for people to be heard or things go underground. Which is what the Streep figure did. |
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| thursday Member Joined May 6, 2009 94 posts |
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Posted Jul 12, 2009; 11:15 am |
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West Coast Frame,
That is exactly my point. The difficulty with such a leadership structure is the fact that it eliminates the ability of those below to voice their concerns in such a way that leadership hears or can be challenged. This is why I do have some concerns for the points of view being shared in the leadership thread. I have a profound respect for leaders BTW, I just think that obey leaders=obey God is far too simplistic. I am sure most of us could think of examples where we have followed a leader who was chosen by GOd and ended up doing the wrong thing. |
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