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| Sudsy Member Joined Sep 23, 2003 2902 posts |
 Revised Community - Manifestations of Power |
Posted Jan 29, 2010; 12:11 pm |
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I keep thinking about what was different in the early church than the church, in general, today that caused outsiders to see them as a unique, Christ following community. I think most of us believe and teach that we have the same Holy Spirit today living within us that the early church received at Pentecost and all believers thereafter. However, do we have the same demonstration of the supernatural power of God working in us today that can be easily seen by outsiders ?
After Pentecost, the religious leaders marveled at how unlearned men like Peter and John could preach with such authority and boldness. And they not only preached but they went about healing the sick and casting out demons. When Paul preached he said he didn't come to them with eloquent speech or man's wisdom but rather in demonstration of the Spirit's power so their faith would be in God's power. I don't know just how that power was demonstrated in his preaching but it must have been something quite obvious. So, both within and outside the community of believers there was an on-going manifestation of the Spirit at work in a supernatural way.
So, what manifestations today are we seeing in our community of believers both within and outside the local church building ? Do we even anticipate some form of supernatural activity and give opportunity in our services for it to be active ? Or are we so structured to 'keep order' or to 'avoid emotionalism' or whatever that we have basically limited how God may want to manifest anything supernatural ? Have we got very religious like the Pharisees in Jesus day and really are caught up in a powerless form of godliness ? What would we do if the 'place was shaken' as we read as happened in Acts ? Was this just something special for this time and place ? Have we determined that because these things are not happening today, it is because God isn't going to do these kinds of demonstrations anymore ?
Are we regularly praying for the sick to be healed with laying on of hands ? Most prayers I hear today is that a doctor (often unbeliever) will be given special ability to do his function and bring about a recovery and/or healing. In a way, I guess, this would be miraculous that God would intervene to even guide an unbelieving doctor and I don't doubt God could but I wonder if it reflects some reluctance to believe God could just as easily replace an organ or remove all traces of disease.
And outside the church walls, what demonstrates to outsiders that this community of believers are quite unique from the world and all other clubs and charitable organizations ? How often are we hearing of miraculous healings and/or demonic deliverances in the ministry of the community ? How are our ministeries to the poor and marginalized seen as something beyond what other non-believing groups are doing ? Is God withholding His power from being demonstrated and we are at a real disadvantage to be a unique culture as the early church was seen to be ?
And on and on, I could ask questions and ponder these things.
But the main point I'm offering for discussion is that if we are to have a revision in our community life that will impact the world will not it need to include quite a revision on how we expect the supernatural to be manifest in this community ? How will people recognize God working in and through us without supernatural manifestations ?
Any thoughts on this ? |
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| lornewel Member Joined May 11, 2004 568 posts Location: Abbotsford |
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| Sudsy Member Joined Sep 23, 2003 2902 posts |
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Posted Feb 1, 2010; 10:18 am |
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Thanks lornewel, I took sometime this morning to listen to this excellent sermon. What a great example this story in Acts is that covers 3 major groupings of people in our society and how the Gospel was communicated. I recommend this sermon to anyone reading these posts. This is what I believe is what 'manifestation of power' is really about.
When the Gospel grips our hearts in such away that the transformation within becomes so obvious to those we come in contact with. It is not about techniques and programs but the reality of Christ living within that is most important. As David said when He returned from backsliding Psalm 51:12-13. When we pray for the restoration of the joy of God's salvation and for a willing heart, then we can teach sinners by our life and words and they will turn to God. It must happen from the inside out. Paul and Silas were just acting out what was a reality within them and God opened all the doors to make their ministry possible.
So, is there another way today to get the same result ? I don't think so. We can analyze things to death but outreach is really an outcome of what is really in our hearts.
Just to add another thought - sometimes I think we need to quit trying to do what only the Holy Spirit can do in and through us. He indwells us; will guide us; will not leave us; will comfort us and will empower us, if we allow Him. The early church operated in the power of the Holy Spirit and this is who makes the difference in our lives to truly be witnesses. Perhaps some have lessened talk about the Holy Spirit's work to not be associated with certain extreme manifestations that some think are Holy Spirit related yet these manifestations do not glorify God. Yet, regardless of what satan may try to do to divert our attention away from our source of power, we must, by faith, continue to be filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit to be effective. Just passing on this thought as our pastor emphasized this just last week. |
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| Len Member Joined Nov 7, 2007 255 posts Location: Kelowna, BC |
| the wine and the wineskin |
Posted Feb 2, 2010; 8:35 pm |
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“No one puts a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch pulls away form the garment, and a worse tear results.
“Nor do men put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out, and the wineskins are ruined;
but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.” Matthew 9:16,17 |
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| Merry Heart Member Joined Feb 22, 2009 15 posts |
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Posted Feb 20, 2010; 1:42 am |
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Here's my thoughts....its fine to say that we can't analyze the H.S. to death, and we can't produce methods or formulas that will produce supernatural manifestations...but face it, sometimes there just isn't enough faith in a community for miracles to happen. I am believing with all my heart that dedicated, unceasing, united prayer will remove the unbelief in my community. One of our retired pastors is preaching on TV and the internet to Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims all over the world. This week we received a report that an E. Indian woman (in Canada) was miraculously healed of a long-standing illness while watching the show. She had previously phoned in to give her life to Jesus, and now, 2 months later she is dramatically healed. She was laughing and laughing as she tried to tell the pastor her good news. The pastor definitely was not preaching on healing, however God honored His Word and the humble faith of this woman and chose to pour out healing power. Praise God!
"And they went forth and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following!" AMEN. (Mark 16:20)
I urge you not to be satisfied with anything less than God's promises. Sometimes the signs are a long time coming, but keeping the fire alive in our hearts (Did not our hearts burn within us?) is critical. The fire comes yes, from time in the Word and time with the Lord! But also from hearing fantastic miracle stories.
Since I last posted on the MB Forum many wonderful and amazing things have happened to me and to my church and we are all focused on praying Acts 4:29-31
9Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly
The change has taken time, humility, and much, much prayer. I should add, tears of intercession and travail as well. It has not been easy but I think it will be worth it in the end. Thank you, Lorne and Sudsy for being a bright light (on this forum) for me last year when I sometimes felt discouraged and alone. God bless you! |
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| Sudsy Member Joined Sep 23, 2003 2902 posts |
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Posted Feb 21, 2010; 12:19 pm |
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Thank you Merry Heart for that testimony and exhortation. Yes, we certainly need more faith in what God can do. Sometimes I hear Christians questioning any miraculous event and it seems they are suggesting that God doesn't really operate in that way today. Although I do believe there will always be phony miraculous claims, there are many true miracles happening throughout the world today. We do need to hear these testimonies.
When you speak about faith the scripture comes to mind on where faith comes from - Romans 10:17. Perhaps this is why there is so little faith today. Instead of listening for God to speak to us, we are too busy developing a logical and distinct set of doctrines or perhaps not taking the time in prayer and meditation to do any listening.
You mentioned your church focusing on prayer and prayers involving tears and intercession. I'm curious if you can trace what might have sparked this desire for prayer. Was it just a hunger of some believers for God to move in a mighty way ? Are these prayers of tears and travail, private prayers or both private and corporate ? I haven't seen travailing prayer much for some time but remember much of this in my youth when there was much earnestness for the salvation of others and for all kinds of healings.
Good to hear from you again and I'm always encouraged by your desire for God and being part of His work. Keep sharing those testimonies as I, too, battle with discouragement at times. |
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| Merry Heart Member Joined Feb 22, 2009 15 posts |
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Posted Feb 28, 2010; 2:00 am |
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Sudsy you said:
| Quote: | | I'm curious if you can trace what might have sparked this desire for prayer. Was it just a hunger of some believers for God to move in a mighty way ? |
Yes, you are right. A tiny remnant of intercessors kept meeting for prayer for probably 5 years. The leadership kept themselves at arms length from us but we kept praying for them and the church. We begged God to repeat the signs and wonders that He did for the church in Acts. We cried out for revival--in our hearts and in the church body. We blessed our pastors, and continually covered even the sanctuary with prayer. This is not to say that nothing good was happening--we had many vibrant programs and ministries, but we were consistently losing members. After much loss both in our finances and in our membership, the leadership called us to prayer. Those very intercessors who were praying on a weekly basis with very little notice from leadership, now have favor and are being given access to pray with and for the pastors.
| Quote: | | Are these prayers of tears and travail, private prayers or both private and corporate ? |
Most of the tears and travailing was done by the small group of intercessors although there is an openness to experiencing more of this corporately. We are becoming a House of Prayer and are realizing that God is wanting to birth something new amongst us. This has been prophesied over us by several people. (Even the word 'prophecy' is becoming accepted in our MB church! Praise God!)
There are more prayer meetings happening on our church property (not just in our homes). People are agreeing in prayer in such a way that when someone prays something the others softly say, "Praise the Lord" or "Thank you, Jesus." That just wasn't done before. Soft prayer-tongues are accepted by most. The anointing of the Spirit on our worship is growing--I'm convinced of it. I sense Jesus moving amongst us now, whereas I used to see him standing off to the side with a mournful look.
People say things like, "Something's changing here at church. We don't know what it is, but we like it."
Prayer changes things!!! |
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| Sudsy Member Joined Sep 23, 2003 2902 posts |
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Posted Mar 2, 2010; 4:14 pm |
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Merry Heart, thanks again for sharing what God is doing in your fellowship. I wish we had lots of these stories being shared here. It is interesting what it takes sometimes to get us on our knees. You mentioned that you were 'consistently losing members. After much loss both in our finances and in our membership, the leadership called us to prayer.'
I recall previous times of revival that I experienced being part of and prayer was a huge part of what was happening. People coming under conviction of sin in their life, weeping and repenting. Some asking forgiveness of others and much travail for the souls of their unsaved family members and acquaintances. I remember as the pastor preached on Sunday, we deacons and elders would be praying throughout the sermon that God would convict hearts of sin. And many came to the Lord and are serving Him today.
But today some say that people just don't feel any sense of guilt today so we need to change our approach. If this is true then I guess the Holy Spirit will also need to change His work - John 16:8 . People may not have a sense of guilt with regard to sin in our culture but they will once the Holy Spirit works on them. Well, I guess I'm wandering unto a new topic as I am concerned with any 'new Anabaptism' or 'new whatever' that is so culturally sensitive that sin is not spoken about and that a holy God hates sin.
Anyway, I hope you share more about what is occurring. I found your comment regarding prophesying over people very interesting and the expressions of being in one accord during corporate praying. |
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