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| Author |
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| Jason |
 Is Tattooing Taboo? |
Posted Jun 11, 2003; 1:12 pm |
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Note: This topic was originally in the Youth Room section of the forum. It was moved to Discuss Anything when the Youth Room was closed.
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"It seems like parents are always arguing with their kids about the latest fashion. How long should they wear their hair? Or their skirts? How much is too much make-up? Why are their jeans so tight? So low? So baggy? The latest fashion craze to drive parents crazy is the art of tattoos and body piercing. Why did you pick that design? How many earrings do you need in one ear? You want to pierce WHAT?!?!?
"...More Christians are getting into this youth culture craze. Is it alright for a Christian to get a tattoo? What kind? Is it okay for a guy to wear an earring? Should a Christian pierce his/her nose or belly button? Is it okay in some cases, but not in others? How do Christians make this decision?" - quoted from www.webpulse.com
As this quote has stated, body piercings and tattoos are become more and more common place. What do you think Christians should do with these things? Stay away from them completely, or is there nothing wrong with tattoos or piercings? Is it OK to get a tattoo as long it can be used to witness; like a cross tattooed on your arm? If it is OK, how far is too far? When does it get to be too many tattoos or piercings, or where is the line drawn for piercing?
What I am most interested in is this: would you consider getting a tattoo or body piercing and why or why not?
I'd like to see lots of people respond so we can get a wide variety of opinions.
Jason |
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| Jayne |
| My far out idea on tattoos... |
Posted Jun 13, 2003; 11:41 pm |
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Hey Jason (and everyone else),
The whole "to tattoo or not to tattoo" is an interesting question. I've never really thought about whether we as Christian should get tattoos or body piercing. And the more I began to think about the topic, the more I didn't know an answer. But when in doubt, I go to the Bible. So I looked to see if the Bible had anything to say about tattoos. This is what I found:
Leviticus 19:28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD ."
Hmmm. Well there's a straight answer if there ever was one. But hold on, there's more to it. By looking at some commentaries, I found out that there's some history to this. At the time that Leviticus was written, the Gentiles were using tattoos to honour and worship their idols. Some of the Israelites were starting to tattoo themselves to worship these pagan idols. God didn't want this to happen for the obvious reason that the Israelites were worshiping other gods other than himself. That's why they were told not to get tattoos.
The "do and do not's" of the old testament weren't just told to the Israelites by God to be meaningless rules, they had a purpose. Many of the commandments were things that would prevent the Israelites from getting sick or dying. God didn't want to see his people die, so he gave them these rules or guidelines to live by.
So, where I am going with this you may ask. Well, maybe it is possible that God wrote Lev. 19:28 for us in our generation as well. He didn't want us to get sick. You see, it is a common fact that many tattoo needles can spread HIV and AIDS. God doesn't want us to get sick either so He tells us not to get them. By not getting tattoos, we don't have the risk of getting these diseases from the needles.
Ok, so this is a little far fetched, but it is a possibility.
As for tattoos themselves, I don't really see that there is a huge problem for Christians to get them. I mean, as long as the tattoo isn't morally wrong or anything. But, I do think that there is a time when a person can go over board with tattoos. When people are totally covered with huge tattoos, that's when they've definitely crossed the line. Christians are supposed to keep the body holy (and getting drenched in tattoos looks kind of tacky anyways).
Personally, I don't think I would get a tattoo. First of all, my mom wouldn't allow it because she's had too many patients that have gotten HIV from tattoo needles. Second, why take the risk? Thirdly, just because I get a tattoo now doesn't mean that I will want it later in life. Fourthly, what if I get a job as an international spy? I don't want any distinguishing marks or tattoos to give my secret identity away.....
~ Jayne Grebinski (Future Spy)  |
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| Guest |
| Hmmmmm... / Tatooing eh? |
Posted Jun 15, 2003; 5:25 pm |
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Hmmm... I wonder if this topic possibly stemmed from some anonymous ear piercing which took place in, well ,some of you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, the prospect of getting sharp objects jammed through my skin has never made me jump for joy. Also I have always thought that pierced eyebrows, bellybuttons, and other random areas on the body some people want to get pierced look wierd when they're pierced. (I haven't seen any "random areas" pierced, and I don't want to) I don't see anything wrong with piercing. I believe that what Jayne pointed out from the Bible was a goog point and should be considered. But like she said, and I agree with this totally, a lot of God's old testament rules were meant to keep the Israelites safe from physical and spiritual harm.
Tatooing eh? I don't consider myself to be much of an expert on tatooing, but from what I hear it involves needles being stuck into your body. And therefore not for me. If a christian would like to get a tatoo then I say go for it. As long as it doesn't consist of statments that go against God or contains any profanity like... "__________." Jayne's closing comment is a little far fetched  (sorry Jayne, but I just don't think that's you). But she has a point. In future years one might find themselves in a position where christians are being persecuted and would you want to have an identifying mark. I sure wouldn't. |
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| Guest |
| Tattoos and Peircings |
Posted Jul 3, 2003; 5:07 pm |
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Very intersting debate about this. My friends sister went to get a tattoo just today in fact. Personally, I don't have a problem with like, a little tattoo on your shoulder or neck or ankle or somwhere else. I have a problem with GIANT tattoos and people that have most of their bodies covered with them. I think that tattoos are ok, but to a certain extent. My friends sister, for example, has a very visible scar that she is getting the tattoo over to cover it up. This is fine. I might consider getting a tattoo when I am older, a small one, something tasteful. I think tattoos are an expression of yourself.
As for piercings, too far is a whole face full of piercings. I would like to get a peircing on my upper ear, and I want my nose pierced. I think piercing is a way of expressing yourself; Like tattoos. I can't understand why people get thier eyebrows, tongue and lip pierced. It's so gross looking. And who wants to kiss someone with a pierced lip!? NOT ME! |
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| Just a Dad |
| Piercings and Tatoos |
Posted Jul 9, 2003; 9:41 pm |
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This is my first time responding to any of Jason's Issues and I hope this is open to those well past the "Jr & Sr Youth" group age. Last night I got back from the Mennonite Church USA Youth Convention in Atlanta where 6,000 Mennonite Youth gathered for worship, prayer, instruction, discussion and fun (Rachel attended the Jr. Youth sessions and had a great time  ). I had the privilege to lead several sessions with youth groups about committing to service projects, getting involved in local ministries and stuff like that and saw lots of young people with variations of piercings and tatoos. I took the opportunity to ask several of them about why they chose to do what they did (and there wasn't anyone who was covered in tatoos or gross piercings or anything like that) and most said they liked the opportunity to express themselves and wanted to make a statement.
I believe Jayne hit on something that we too often neglect. In Leviticus, God warns His people not to engage in tatoos because, in that time, people were using tatoos as a form of worshipping idols. Today we do similar things when we worship stuff (cars, stereos, friends, etc.) by putting more energy into those things than our relationship with God and Christ. We are reminded in scripture that our God is a jealous God and we should put no other "gods" before Him. Could that mean we might be sinning when we are placing greater emphasis on our appearance than on our relationship with Christ ? Are those who immerse themselves in tatoos or piercings misplacing their worship as the Isrealites did prior to God's word to them in Leviticus ?
I find many tatoos rather quaint and attractive as with some small discreet piercings but, as with many things in life, we need to ask the simple question . . . . "Why am I doing this and will it enhance my relationship with Christ ?" |
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| kirby |
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Posted Aug 22, 2003; 6:50 am |
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I think tattoos are for the individual as long as it is in good taste. I've been a Christian for several years now and have 2 tattoos on my arms and do not think there is anythig wrong with them, as long as you have a purpose for getting them, not just because they are "cool".
The dolphin on my left arm symbolizes my little brothers love for dolphins, before he died he went swimming with some and for me, a dolphin symbolizes freedom.
On my right arm I have my brothers name surrounded by a small tribal circle. For me, this means that I will always have my bro's memory inside of me. That's just my thoughts on them.... |
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| MEME |
| piercing/tattos |
Posted Nov 23, 2003; 12:33 am |
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| I BELIEVE THAT CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE ITS OKAY TO HAVE TATOOS OR PIERCING NEED TO EXAM THERE HEARTS. BEING A CHRISTIAN IS BEING CHRIST LIKE. AND YOU ASK YOURSELVES THIS QUESTION WOULD JESUS DO WHAT IM ABOUT TO DO. US CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSSED TO STAND OUT FROM A CROWD NOT BE EQUALLY YOKED WITH THE CROWD. |
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| Jared |
| piercing 101 |
Posted Nov 27, 2003; 12:48 am |
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Tatoos are a form of expressing yourself. The style of clothes you wear is a form of expressing yourself (but unlike where not having any tatoos may be considered positive, not having any clothes is definetely not considered positive, heh heh, I digress). The same goes for piercings, jewellery, the music you listen to, etc. And, as has already been previously stated, expressing yourself is by no means a negative thing; however, one must be careful to consider what your choice of tatoo or piercing is expressing. I believe that if you are going to get a tatoo, it should be something that you would consider important and valuable for your entire life, as thats how long it will be there for.
I believe there is nothing wrong with getting a tatoo; hark, it could be a witnessing device if chosen appropriately. As for body piercings, being the proud owner of one eyebrow barbell, I think that they are once again a way of expressing yourself. To take it one step further, in some cultures they are an integral part of attire, similar to wearing a toque in Canada during the Heritage Classic. Surely it is not right to judge these people a certain way or tell them their culture is unacceptable.
It is also important, also previously stated, that like anything, a person's piercings or tatoos should never become more important than God
In Christ,
Jared
ps.
I am proud of the piercing I did in the kitchen with a potato! It was good positioning and didn't get infected. |
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| Grant |
| hmmmm |
Posted Dec 30, 2003; 3:26 pm |
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Moderation is the key. If your getting a piercing or tattoo, you've got to realize there are most likely people who will be bothered by it. Others won't even notice, and some will, and think its cool. There is truth in Pauls remarks about being careful about making another brother stumble. I mean if a piercing it going bother someone at church greatly, maybe don't wear it at church, or get one of those clear plastic retainers, or make sure your tattoo is one you can cover up if necessary (don't get it on your face). This could come in handy at church and various other places like job interviews.
Paul was talking about food that was offered to idols not tattoo's and peircings. It bothered some people greatly to even think that someone in the church was eating food from the pagan temples, but others said, whatever, its just food. So i guess when it comes to tattoo's and piercings just remember to be considerate, and moderate.
Grant |
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| david |
| Tattoo |
Posted Jan 26, 2004; 12:43 pm |
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I don't think that I will ever get a tattoo because my family has genes that are quite susceptible to skin cancer. Getting a tattoo does increase your risk of getting skin cancer but as long as you take care of it: putting on sunscreen etc. it should be all right. I have heard many stories of god using tattoo's as a conversation starter that lead people to the lord. This is fantastic, but I am sure there may also be stories of christians with tattoo's turning people off christianity.
As to what the bible says about this I think the bible is far more concerned about the condition and attitudes of our heart than the condition of our skin. There is a really strong guy in my youth group who was considering getting a tattoo on each shoulder that say Thunder and Lightning. Then he could say "Hey do you want to meet my friends?" Then he could either flex or beat someone up. In that case it would seem that the action may stem from a prideful heart.
Romans 12:6
let's just go ahead and be what we were made to be, without enviously or pridefully comparing ourselves with each other, or trying to be something we aren't. If you preach, just preach God's Message, nothing else
I think this verse sums up the idea, if the people we hang out with would respond positively to a tattoo and if we have oppurtunity to turn anybody to god then we should do so. If we don't have a tattoo then we should never think that we are better than the christians with them. |
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| rudyhiebert Member Joined Oct 2, 2003 481 posts Location: Abbotsford BC |
| Tatooing |
Posted Feb 9, 2004; 7:28 pm |
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| Tatooing and the other disfiguring that one sees is all in one category. I'm from "the old school" and don't think it's smart or looks appealing to have rings and studs where it hurts just to see them. |
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| Jason |
| Final Words |
Posted Mar 26, 2004; 1:48 pm |
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I have enjoyed reading through the responses for this issue. There were many, and they certainly were varied. I really appreciate the thoughts that have been expressed here.
Some quotes that I have found meaningful from this post:
"I find many tatoos rather quaint and attractive as with some small discreet piercings but, as with many things in life, we need to ask the simple question..."Why am I doing this and will it enhance my relationship with Christ?" (Just a Dad)
-I say "right on" to this thought. Our relationship with Christ should be at the heart of all we do, and getting a tatoo or a piercing is no exception. In resonse to "Meme's" post, I agree that we certainly should ask ourselves if Jesus would participate in what we are doing. However, to suggest that He wouldn't is very difficult to be certain about. In our North American society, tatoos and piercings have become a natural part of the youth/20-something culture as a form of expression. Jesus did not come to condemn most parts of any culture, but to celebrate the good in it and to redeem all of it. And I think that we as Christians can use tatoos/piercings to celebrate good and to redeem that part of our culture. As has been expressed by so many of the previous posters, we must make sure that we don't separate tatooing/piercing from our relationship with Christ, for whatever reason we get them done.
"I believe that if you are going to get a tatoo, it should be soemthing that you would consider important and valuable for your entire life, as that's how long it will be there for." (Jared)
-Another wonderful insight. I myself have often considered getting a tatoo, and this has been the one thing that has continued to stop me so far. Sure, it would look cool now, but what about when I'm 80 years old? Piercings can be removed, tatoos are for life (unless you want more pain and cost in the form of laser surgery).
I hope that we will all strive to live continually with an open conscience before God as we discern how to live a life that seeks to connect with and also redeem our culture.
Jason |
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| jonub |
| a dad with a tattoo and piercings |
Posted Apr 20, 2004; 1:05 pm |
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I got my first earring when I was 16, almost 18 years ago now, and my first tattoo 10 years ago. When I came home with my earring (a Christmas gift from my girlfriend) my parents were none too pleased. My dad particularly struggled with what an earring 'meant.' For me it was simply a mode of self-expression, and didn't have much of a deeper meaning. Was this wrong? Did I somehow neglect Christ by piercing my ear? I don't think so. My parents also came to an appreciation of my earrings, recognizing that it was far more significant that I was active in church, committed to Christ, and growing in my faith. It did not take them long to judge me by my fruits than by my appearance.
I certainly received some strange looks, as no males in my church or in most of my friendship circles had an earring. Some people questioned my faith, as it seemed incongruous to them that a Christian could look so 'worldly.' My willingness to get so into the culture around me was a stumbling block for some.
On the flip side, it did become easier for me to relate to my peers at school and beyond as they saw me as someone willing to step beyond the 'stained-glass' of the church folks they knew and connect more personally. Honestly, I was much more concerned about my relationships with people outside of the church than within. The more I work in the church the more I think I have lost some of that passion unfortunately.
I am surprised by all the concern about being 'discreet' or not being covered in tattoos. What difference does that make to the gospel or to that person's faith? God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, not the outward appearance. We spend so much time 'saving our appearances' (check out the book by Owen Barfield on that issue.) that we quickly judge those who don't look like us. God never asked us to be homogenous or look alike. Do our passions for things, or activities, or tattoos, or work, or food, overtake our passion for God? Then we should be concerned and look into our heart. If we are keeping Christ the focus than the number of tattoos should be irrelevant, or at least less relevant than the number of cars we own.
We are called to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Do piercings or tattoos prevent that? Only if the intent is impure. What about the new clothes we just bought? Or the new car? Most of those who critique young people or others for their piercings, tattoos, etc. look quite abit like their peers.
I got a tattoo about 10 years ago, as a statement of who I am and who I hope to become. It is a reflection of the values I hold dear. I have another couple planned, but I have held off as I cannot justify the cost at this time. The next one will be dedicated to my wife, and the third to my son, with another at some point for our expectant child.
Are these detrimental to my soul? I doubt it. They are constant reminders of the commitments I have made, first to my God, and then to my family. And these are commitments I am willing to live with for the rest of my life. |
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| Guest |
| Egyptian Christians & Tattooing |
Posted May 7, 2004; 1:06 pm |
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I happened to come across this article in my work today, and remembered at the same time that the MBForum had a thread on tattooing. I was also reminded of an experience I've had in Egypt. In my several trips to Cairo (leading study tours) we visited St. Mark's Cathedral for the Coptic Pope's Bible Study on Wednesday evenings. At those gatherings we were introduced to the Coptic (the name for the traditional Egyptian Orthodox Church) practice of tattooing a cross on the top of one's hand. I've noticed since then that many Egyptian Christians continue this ancient practice.
The article, "Tattoo or Not Tattoo," is an extended review by Lauren F. Winner of two recent books on the history of tattooing. It's in the online version of Books & Culture. You can find it here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/books/web/2000/oct10.html
The article reviews these books:
Bodies of Inscription: A Cultural History of the Modern Tattoo Community
by Marge DeMello
Duke University Press
222 pp.; $16.95, paper
Written on the Body: The Tattoo in European and American History
edited by Jane Caplan
Princeton University Press
319 pp.; $19.95, paper
Here are a few paragraphs from the article, referring to two essays in Caplan's book:
Particularly worthy of attention are Mark Gustafson's essay on tattooing in the Roman Empire and Charles MacQuarrie's look at Celtic tattooing.
Gustafson, who teaches classics at Calvin College, shows that Greeks and Romans thought tattoos were barbaric, and did not regard them as decorative, but were quite happy to use them as punishments for slaves and criminals. Much of the available evidence about punitive tattooing involves Christians—such as the story, which comes down to us from Theodoret, of "a deacon of Damascus … who had been sent to Egypt, had shown support for those hardy souls who persisted in the Nicene faith, and was outrageously condemned to to hard labour in the copper mines of Palestine." The deacon was marked for the mines with a tattoo on his forehead.
But Christians also participated in voluntary tattooing. A monk in the 480s, for instance, had the following phrase inscribed on his thigh: "Manim, the disciple of Jesus Christ." Procopius of Gaza, writing in the late 400s, talks of Christians whose arms were marked with a cross or the name of Christ.
How did Christians get from the censure of tattoos in Leviticus, and Greco-Roman disdain, to tattoos proclaiming Christ's glory? Gustafson suggests that the transformation began with Paul, who, in Galatians 6:17, says "I carry the marks of Jesus tattooed on my body." Though conceding that Paul speaks metaphorically, Gustafson argues that he is "deliberately invoking the degrading practice of punitive tattooing. Throughout his letters, Paul embraces the role of slave of God and of Christ, and thus embraces humilation, extreme obedience, and bodily suffering. The effect was deeply subversive of earthly authority, a paradigm shift."
In "Insular Celtic Tattooing: History, Myth, and Metaphor," Charles MacQuarrie shows that Celtic Christians approved of some tattoos while disparaging others. MacQuarrie suggests, for example, that the marks famously referred to in the Life of Saint Brigit might well have been tattoos. (A group of warriors approached Brigit and asked her blessing on a raid. She refused to sanction the raid, instead beseeching God to prevent them from being hurt or hurting anyone. And, noticing that the men bore "evil marks," she also asked God to remove them from their bodies.)
The 786 Report of the Papal Legates concluded that if one is tattooed out of pagan superstition, "it will not contribute to his salvation any more than does circumcision of the body to the Jew without belief of the heart," but if one "were to undergo this injury of staining for the sake of God," he would be rewarded. Good justification-by-faith readers may wince at the implication that tattoos can help you get into heaven, but we can perhaps at least rest easy in the assurance that tattoos are not intrinsically evil. |
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| kevin_kohinski |
| Tatooing |
Posted Jul 9, 2004; 5:47 am |
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My name is Kevin and I have just finished my first year of Church. For many reasons and excuses I denounced The lord most of my life, and am new to christianity. I have more questions then answers right now but I'm eger to learn more.
I wanted a why to show the world that I am a Christian.
"No one after lighting a lamp puts it in a cellar or under a bushel,
but on a stand, that those who enter may see the light."
-Luke 11:33
Then while at work a fellow employee and I began talking about his New tatoo. Although a GMC tatoo really has nothing to do with christianity, it got me thinking. So I went on the internet and stumbled upon this sight. After reading your replys I desided to do alittle research of my own.
The main arggument against tatooing is based on Old Testiment Law with the eception of the 10 commandments was denounces by Christ.
"…But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in… And you say, 'If any one swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.' You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it; and he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who dwells in it; and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin,
and have neglected the weightier matters of the law,
justice and mercy and faith…"
-selected verses from Matthew 23 (see also Luke 11:39-52)
But there is a limit to everything. Although the bible says nothing agains tatooing it does have one thing. You cannot do anything that could lead someone away from salvation through the lord.
"Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God.
Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for any one
to make others fall by what he eats; it is right not to eat meat
or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble."
-Romans 14:20-21
I will use my tatoos to "proclaim upon the housetops. what is whisperd to me"
-Matthew 10:27
I did all my research and readings at http://www.axxent.ca/~gennaro/Bible_Support/index.html#old_law_new_law
If you are looking for a tatoo are some amunition for the tatoo fight with your parents it is a awsome sight.
If you would like to talk more about this with me, or even help me better under stand somthings my email me at k_kohinski@hotmail.com[/bible][/dict] |
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